Comments on Canberra working kids
Posted on March 27, 2009 by by Valeri
The ACT Government is calling for comments on the Employment of Children & Young People in the ACT.
New law about employment of children and young people will commence in July 2009 (Chapter 21, Children and Young People Act 2008). New standards and regulations about employment are required and we would like to know what people think.
The standards and regulations will set appropriate conditions for employment and work experience for children and young people.
Visit the ACT Department of Disability Housing and Community Services to view the discussion paper on the issue, you will also find details about sending them your comments.
Comments will be accepted until 5pm Monday 11 May 2009.
Update – 28 March 2009
Top Typeboarders “TBers” 99 Red Balloon and Loquacity with the support of TypeBoard are urging typeboarders and the community to contribute with any ideas and comments to this article, all feedback will then be added to typeboard as a new article and sent to the ACT Government for their consideration.
Remember, you don’t have to be a parent to provide ideas or comments, you just have to care about the future of our young generation 
45 Comments to “Comments on Canberra working kids”
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I did not see anything about salary issues? I had a look at the doc but couldn’t see it, maybe I missed it or is is part of a different employment agreement?
In regards to salaries, I remember just over 10yrs ago kids were paid under $10 per hour at some junk food stores.
Kids work very hard and sometimes harder than some adults so I think they should be paid better. Anyone knows how much they get today?
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I think there has to be some financial incentive for an employer to be willing to hire a twelve year old as opposed to a college student or adult.
I would be happy for her to be able to work somewhere to earn enough pocket money to keep her in clothes and gadgets, but not enough that she could say ‘to hell with you’ and move out of home the first time we had a major argument.
At the moment I think it’s a shame that she wants to work and people have even been interested in hiring her but find they can’t because she’s too young.
I think it needs to be mutually beneficial for employers, kids and parents. It needs to be a win-win situation for everyone.
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99 – there is a financial incentive for employers to hire young workers. They pay young people a lot less than adults (which is not just less they pay directly to the worker, but less PAYG, less super, less insurance …). That said, the conditions and requirements around hiring young workers are a barrier, and should be removed.
valeri – as I understand it, rates of pay are handled through different legislation. Also, by paying kids too much the financial advantage to employers is removed. It’s seems like a great idea for the kids, but not only will employers be less motivated to hire young kids, the kids will also be earning a lot more than they really need to (see 99′s note re earnings). Remember that young people don’t need to support themselves, so even if a portion of their money is going on things like transport to and from work, very nearly 100% is disposable – which means clothes, iPods and takeaway food.
I’ll address the injuries bit in another comment.
L
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Valeri said:
What kind of work should children and young people not be able to do?
children should be permitted to work in any industry that doesn’t involve a high chance of accidental death and injuries.
Lifting heavy loads could also cause injuries, most young kids under 14yrs have not completely develop physically at that age yet.
I agree, but I disagree (yes, I do that a lot! Bear with me here). I agree that some jobs – such as backdock work, parcel delivery etc – carry a risk of injury, especially to young people. But I disagree that it should be legislated for. Children are developing younger and younger (that’s proven), and many children are perfectly capable (and willing) of performing heavy work. Some kids though you think are going to snap in half if they pick up a box. A blanket law can’t discriminate in this case though, and this is where the parental permission comes in. Under 14, they need parental permission, and that permission should only be granted if the parent thinks the child is:
* capable of doing the work (physically and mentally)
* capable of working the hours required
* has sufficient ability to get to and from work
&c …
L
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From the short discussion paper on the DHCS site:
• What kind of work do you think is okay for children and young people? Does age make a
difference?
Children need to learn about the real world, but not at the detriment of the social and developmental opportunities. They still need to be kids. a job gives them responsibility, but, if they are sub teen, chores in the home should really be their first taste of work, and recompense.
• What kind of work should children and young people not be able to do?
Anything that involves physical labor above their current thresholds. Anything that puts them in danger of physical harm.
• Do you think a parent has to give permission for their son/daughter to work? At what
age?
yes. as mentioned above, pre-teen children should be allowed to enjoy being children. 12 and up is a better age to allow a taste of the real world.
• Should employers have to make sure young people have a safe way to get to work or
home if you work very early or late at night?
children should not be expected to work early morning or late at night, this creates a risk of personal harm, both from an access perspective, as well as lack of concentration. A tired child will not be an effective worker.
• Do you think there should be a maximum number of hours you can work in one week?
Basing working periods on after school, the maximum per weekday should be 3-4 hours.
Should this be different for different ages?
no.
• Do you think you should have to have a break (say 10 hours) between each time you
work? Should you be able to work twice in the same day?
Breaks are provided for adults, during a normal working day. Children need to be able to engage in education, as well as balance their work / life experience.
• Do the rules need to be different if you work in a family business?
no.
• Should your boss have to provide extra facilities for you, such as access to a telephone for
contacting a parent?
yes. all workers have access to contact their spouse, family in times of stress.
• Do there need to be different rules for working as a model, on television or in other
entertainment? Is this different for a baby or young child?
I cannot comment, as I have no experience in this field.
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I don’t think it should be based on the school week, as some jobs may be specifically during the school holidays or on weekends.
Also, I think there would be not much incentive for an employer to go to all the bother of the paperwork just for 3-4 hours per week.
My child wants to work and I see no reason why she shouldn’t do so. If a parent does not want their child to work at all, or no more than 3-4 hours a week, then that should be their decision but I don’t see that everybody should be limited that way.
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What kind of work should children and young people not be able to do?
I agree with L and P.
Anything that involves physical labor above their current thresholds. Anything that puts them in danger of physical harm.
* capable of doing the work (physically and mentally)
•Do there need to be different rules for working as a model, on television or in other
entertainment? Is this different for a baby or young child?
Shouldn’t be any different to adults plus a baby should not be up filming a tv ad at 11pm, that is my opinion on this last question cause I would hate trying to get him/she back to a sleeping routine
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I think we need to draw a very distinct line here. There’s a lot of shoulds and should-nots going on. The purpose of the legislation is to decide what the government can mandate. So what rules are up to the government and what are up to the parent?
Where there is a disagreement over whether a child could or could not do something (for example, lifting heavy boxes), the government should not blanket-mandate that they can’t. That decision has to be up to parents until the children can be considered of an age where they can make a decision themselves.
Child-labour laws exist to protect children from being exploited. An employer will employ anyone they feel is suitable for a position, but they can only judge based on information provided by the applicant. Because children can be considered to not fully understand their own capabilities, or to be able to accurately and realistically judge the consequences of paid employment (such as travel to and from work, the realities of working long hours with little sleep, or the physical and mental challenges involved in demanding jobs), parents are asked to assist in the decision making process.
The point I am trying to make is that, just because some children may be incapable of performing job function X, the government shouldn’t be able to mandate that no child can perform job function X.
L
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Valeri said:
Shouldn’t be any different to adults plus a baby should not be up filming a tv ad at 11pm, that is my opinion on this last question cause I would hate trying to get him/she back to a sleeping routine
So is 8pm too late? What about 6pm? Or maybe they could start early – say 6am? 8am? What about weekends? Public holidays? Can they be asked to work on Christian festivals? What about Jewish or Muslim?
You can’t legislate for that. It has to be up to parents. The child can work at any time the parent deems appropriate.
L
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I’m going to attempt to write up a draft of this proposal this weekend, taking into account all the suggestions made here. So get your ideas in quick!
L
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I consider the following important to take into consideration:
Report of the APA Task Force on the Sexualization of Girls from the American P Association,
and the Australia Institute’s Corporate Paedophilia: Sexualisation of children in Australia.
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Sorry, American Psychological Association!
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99, got it! I’ll have a read and grab the main points for the summary.
Thanks
L
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L these are all good points, I am getting a little out of track here
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Valeri, we’re all guilty of that! Just wanted to remind everyone that we’re talking about blanket legislation, not individuals. Ideally, the legislation should be broad, and allow parents to restrict that as they deem necessary for the individual. This allows any kids who are able and willing to work to do that, and protects those kids who can’t or shouldn’t be working.
L
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99, I’m having trouble finding “the Australia Institute’s Corporate Paedophilia: Sexualisation of children in Australia”. I haven’t googled yet though, will do that when I have the time to look at it closer.
L
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Children should not be dressed in clothing, made up, or posed in ways designed to draw attention to adult sexual features that they do not yet possess.
Children should not be portrayed or directed to act in ways modelled on adult sexual behaviour.
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Oh, sorry L! Try:
https://www.tai.org.au/?q=node/8&offset=2
Ones of interest are: DP93.pdf Letting Children Be Children and DP90.pdf which is the Corporate Paedophilia paper.
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Got it now. Thanks 99
L
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